Kai Craig – debut album ‘A Time Once Forgotten’

UKJazz News: It is rather impressive for a musician of Gregory Hutchinson’s stature to produce a young artist’s debut album – congratulations! How did that come about? 

Kai Craig: I’ve been mentored by Hutch for the past 5 or 6 years. He’s one of the greatest drummers of all time and someone I look up to immensely. He expects high standards and sets the bar high in everything he does. Excellence is what he’s about, and that really encourages me to bring my all. He can be tough when he knows you have potential, but ultimately that breeds a standard of excellence within anybody he’s around. He’s looked out for me through many tough times and transitional phases in my life. When I asked him if he’d be down to hang at the studio and help me make my first record, there was no doubt in his mind.

Hutch is a great friend and a very real human, so having him there brought the best out of me musically and reminded me that there’s life outside music. There’s also friendship, family and humanity. It grounded me and reminded me of my journey to this point, but also to believe in myself. We would go for coffee early each day before the sessions. We talked about drums, life, lessons, album covers, heroes, solos, ballads, and everything in between. It helped me find my headspace and was a great learning experience. That’s what a great producer does – they help everybody find the right mindset and allow the best version of themselves to come out in the studio. It was fun and an honour, too, of course.

UKJN: Sean Payne (saxophone) was also heavily involved in the album, not just as a player, but as an arranger and composer as well. Tell the readers a bit about your shared history and close musical relationship…

KC: Sean is my closest friend, and we’ve grown up together. We’ve known each other like brothers for a long time now. His family feels like my own in some ways. We met 9 or 10 years ago at a music summer school, but we came from very different places, and it wasn’t until we got to know each other that we realised that we were similar in a lot of ways. We liked a lot of the same records and were both serious about getting better and developing our playing to a high level. Sean knew more music than I did at that time, so every time we hung out, I would learn a lot. It put me on a path to discover as much music as I could, and prompted me to fill the gaps in my playing as quickly as I could, too. We played a lot back then, shedding all day and hanging out, listening to Black Codes (Wynton Marsalis) and Michael Brecker. I’m grateful to call him my friend and that he is on the album. The duo stuff we got to on “Namesake” and “Afterthought” is some of the music I’m most proud of on the album.

We had been playing Sean’s music for quite a few years in his quartet and various other settings, so I knew that I wanted to record one of his tunes. Sean is one of the greatest saxophonists I will ever know, but he is also an amazing composer. He knows so much about music, composition, harmony, and has a very keen eye for detail. His tunes feel natural to me, seeing as I’ve played so many of them over the years. It’s like second nature when we try his new tunes for the first time. I also wanted his help to arrange the music for the album, so I asked him if he would be interested in reworking the tunes to help them fit this band. He was sending scans of handwritten scores to me, and I would then input the music and finalise it to send out to all of the cats. Sean brings the best out of me and it’s a great partnership. I think that comes across when we play.

UKJN: Can you talk about your original composition “Dealin’”, which is out as a single today… 

KC: The song title has a few meanings… The primary meaning came from something Hutch said to me early on: “Always make sure you Dealin’”. He was telling me that every time I sit down on the drums, not to take any prisoners and to put everything I have into it. Treat every time I play as though it’s the first and last time someone will hear me. It changed my whole perspective from that moment on.

The tune was written for Roy Hargrove, with whom Hutch influenced many drummers, including me. I was thinking about songs of Roy’s like “The Thang” and “The Left Side”. They’re songs with angular forms and a couple of harmonic corners, but have catchy and uplifting vibes to them. I wrote the tune while I was at school with Sean’s help. Sean was helping me to understand composition, harmony and helping me learn piano, so I was practicing and learning new tunes at the time. I thought about the form of “Dealin’” first, finding a structure that felt good to play and that would get more interesting the more it went round. The harmony was first inspired by a few cadences from Mulgrew Miller’s tunes, then the bridge of Chick Corea’s “Inner Space” inspired the end of the first section, and then Sean and I added a few things to make it into a functioning tune. It’s deceptively hard to play as the form plays tricks on you the more times it goes around, but I’m happy with how it turned out. It sounds exactly the way I hoped it would.

UKJN: The title of your debut album, A Time Once Forgotten, alludes to your musical vision – can you elaborate on that? 

KC: The album title came about one morning with Hutch and Sean, discussing ideas before a session. I was talking about how I wanted to play a selection of music by the likes of Michael Brecker, Kenny Kirkland and Wayne Shorter from the late 80s/early 90s, whose songs felt as though they had become part of my own personal songbook in a way. That’s an era of music that I feel is glossed over often and wasn’t talked about at all in my formal music education. I think people can be hesitant to spend time with music of that era as it’s not prioritised in the same way as music of the 40s, 50s and 60s. It’s easy to forget that the music of that era is already pushing 40 years since it was released. Hutch quickly came out with A Time Once Forgotten, and it fit exactly what I was going for. In my eyes, there’s a lot that can be learnt from spending time playing music by those great musicians, so this project was as much an extension of myself as it was a gentle reminder that great music exists within the last 40 years and we can still say something new on it, in the same way we can with music from the Great American Songbook or music of the Bebop era. It’s all an extension of the same language and I personally think we should be building upon it now.

UKJN: There are several different nationalities in your band – how did this lineup come together? 

KC: Deciding on who to call to help bring this music to life was a fairly straightforward decision. I had spent a lot of time thinking of who I would call if I ever had the opportunity to make an album of my own. Sean was my first call, not least for everything that has already been said about him, but we do everything together, and he’s one of the very few people who really gets where I want to take my playing. Sean spent some time studying in Cologne, where he first started playing with the pianist Rainer Böhm.

Rainer and I had already played together a few times in Sean’s quartet and recorded Sean’s first album. Rainer is one of my favourites – he’s a genius. He hears the bigger picture but also hears extremely intricate details and always plays the right thing. He’s endlessly creative. His playing can take the music in any direction, so it’s always exciting and unknown where we will end up when we start playing together. I think that spark that Rainer brings is one of the things that really makes the album special.

James Copus was another obvious choice for me. The second horn player had to be someone with the capability to lead through melodic playing, but also someone who worked in a section. James and Sean have played together a lot, and it feels natural playing with the two of them whenever we get together. James is an incredible soloist and one of the greatest trumpet players around. Trumpet and Drums is an important hookup, and he knows the full extent of his instrument, which means we’re always in there every time we play.

The foundation of the group, and my partner in rhythm, had to be someone who understood and came up loving the same music I did. Géraud Portal first heard about me through Hutch and called me to do a tour in Europe around the time I was coming out of school. I can’t remember us ever having a problem, just fun and love for the music. He’s like a big brother to me. We listen to John Coltrane with Jimmy Garrison and Elvin Jones whenever we’re together. That means we have the same foundation when we swing. That’s really the music that brought us closer and became the foundation of our friendship and partnership. Bassists and drummers always get on well, and it’s no different with Géraud. His beat is my favourite, and he has a hell of a sound.

UKJazz News: In addition to the aforementioned tracks on the album, you include tunes by Wayne Shorter, Fred Hersch, Kenny Kirkland, John Taylor and Michael Brecker. Have these artists been especially influential on you? 

KC: Most definitely. When I was younger, music from the late 80s/early 90s period felt as natural to play as tunes from the Great American Songbook did. Sean and I would play songs like “Slings and Arrows” (Michael Brecker), “Steepian Faith” (Kenny Kirkland) and “Lonjellis” (Kirkland) endlessly, as though they were standards. We would play just about anything written by Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Wynton and Branford Marsalis, Mulgrew Miller or Joey Calderazzo. Nobody else at school knew much of that music, so we ended up developing our own book of tunes by ourselves in the shed and on gigs. That era of music was huge for us, and it’s the era that all of my favourite drummers were active on the scene. Hutch is the link to that generation, so when I was telling him that I wanted to give thanks to my favourite drummers and musicians, he knew what I was going for.

The final link is a wild card of sorts. John Taylor is the link to my British heritage and my education at the Academy. Martin France was an important mentor of mine there, and his contributions with JT are all great sources of inspiration for me. I was in contact with Marv right up until he passed, and really miss him. John spent a lot of time in Cologne, and Rainer was one of his students, so there’s a link there, too. I was trying to find a ballad or something slower to complete the album, when I ended up settling on “Dry Stone”. JT’s music is some of the deepest and harmonically advanced music of all time. I always loved the colours and different harmony he writes with, and feel his music is not played or talked about nearly enough. It felt like a natural decision to include one of his compositions on the record, given his influence on me and all those connections.

UKJN: You moved from Paris to New York in 2023 – how did that move come about? 

KC: I wanted to live in New York at one point in my life, for as long as I could remember, I just needed to figure out how I’d get there. I had visited on a few occasions and loved the way being here made me feel. I willed it into existence and hoped that my path would lead me here. At the time, I was working with a singer – we recorded a few songs for her newest album – and then suddenly, her manager asked if I could play on a US tour they had coming up. I’ve been here for 2 years since, and counting. It was a piece of pure luck and is a reminder to myself to trust what the universe has in store. To always be prepared for when the opportunity we are waiting for will finally come.

UKJN: What have been some of your highlights in NYC so far? 

KC: It’s been the greatest learning experience in my life so far, so that’s a highlight in itself. I came here not really planning to follow the conventional path of doing school and going out every night. Instead, I was seeking mentorship from certain musicians and used the transition as a way to engineer some time to myself – to really figure out what direction I wanted to take my playing in. Mentors of mine like Kenny Washington, Tyshawn Sorey and Marcus Gilmore have all been an integral part of my experience here. As well as the likes of Bill Stewart, Tain, Johnathan Blake, Eric Harland, Karriem Riggins, Al Foster, Kendrick Scott, Jack DeJohnette.

There’s nowhere else in the world that I would have been able to be immersed in the same way. All of my favourite drummers have been generous in offering guidance to me and have helped me to stay on the right path. Getting to spend time with many of my heroes is certainly a highlight and an honour for me. As someone who grew up far away from London with no access to live music until I moved there for school, I don’t take the opportunity to hear live music for granted. Being able to hear live music regularly is a gift, and having the opportunity to cross paths with great musicians is very special. There’s no doubt it’s tough here. That’s the other side of it that’s hard to understand unless you experience it for yourself. But it’s part of it; everybody gets by and leaves New York stronger than when they arrived.

UKJN: Is there anything else you would like listeners to know before checking out the album? 

KC: Every decision that was made throughout the making of this album was lengthy and carefully considered, with only the best interests of the music at heart. All of the tunes have been switched out hundreds of times, arrangements have been changed countless times, and just about everything else behind the scenes has gone through so many variations. It has been carefully crafted into an album that I am immensely proud to release. It’s hard to let go after nearly 3 years in the making. I’m a perfectionist, so I always manage to find something else that I want to change. But overall, I’m happy with it, and I hope everybody who hears the album enjoys the music. Listen with open ears and an open heart, and let the music take you on a journey.

Kai Craig’s debut album, A Time Once Forgotten, is released on 8 August 2025 through Whirlwind Recordings. The first single “Dealin'” is available for streaming and download from today, 13 June. Kai is proud to endorse Sonor drums, Zildjian cymbals and Vic Firth sticks.

Charlie Rees is an English saxophonist, composer/arranger & journalist. He is the Assistant Editor of UKJN and was a fellow student of Kai’s at RAM.